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 Post subject: Pump [V1]
PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul 2015, 01:39 
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Well here goes nothing. Corrumpo got a name change, and a whole new face.

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This is currently a WIP, and I'm only uploading so that people can see my progress.

Feedback is wanted, and very much appreciated.
Lighting/Particles/Decals/Models are mostly placeholders.

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Last edited by GelatinOverlord on Mon 03 Aug 2015, 06:16, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pump [V0.5]
PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul 2015, 02:26 
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Just had a run around. Huge improvement over Corrumpo in terms of gameplay. Obviously we'll need to playtest this properly but the map clearly has routes and CQC areas now so should play nicely! I also love the overall look, with the dark blue water and the greyscale metal environment. The central oil pump is crazy cool too, with the particles shooting up and the circlular pipe. Always love seeing how you creatively do things in the map editor :D

Anyway I know it's a WIP but here's some general impressions:

1) Bit tricky with vehicles, as my car flies wayyy high off the jumps. You might want to consider flattening the angle of these jumps or even turning some of them into stairs as this will prevent the car from flying up. Or somehow making it clearer where the car is and isn't meant to go.

2) Cool ninja jump! But why is it hurting me? I guess maybe some particle effects are needed here: http://prntscr.com/7vhaxw

3) Got a smoothing error in the spawn. Also I think these diagonals in red are too blocky. It's creative and looks cool.. but it's the sorta thing that a fun map should do, not an official one. It simply highlights how blocky the game is. Basically try to keep the actual tiling as simple as possible and accept the limitations of the tile system. Save the sexy graphical stuff for models and decals where it makes sense: http://prntscr.com/7vhc0w http://prntscr.com/7vhchs

4) I feel like some of these buildings are too tall. http://prntscr.com/7vhdha It makes it hard to see around corners properly and in general I think lower buildings look better. The tops of the buildings are already pitch black, so you could just make them lower and use a full-blocking collision type on them.

5) In a similar vein to above, I think the map is a bit.. TOO detailed. Sometimes less is more. A flat simple surface with a few well placed models can be much easier on the eye than having crazy zigzaggy tiles everywhere. The detailing you've done is amazing and all the textures are great, but maybe it's just a bit too much? Like having details like that in just a few small places is really good. But all over the map can make things feel a little messy and cluttered I suppose: http://prntscr.com/7vhfiz

6) Also kinda related to the "too many details" point above, but it seems like some things have been made to look cool just for the sake of it :p Like these bits here make me feel like I'm on a space ship or something, not an Oil Rig. http://prntscr.com/7vhg9v Again, it LOOKS cool but thematically I have no idea what that could possibly be :p It'd be great for a fun-map, but I guess it's just too futuristic looking for official maps.

7) In general the map could use a bit more colour. I really like the overall grey theme but bits of colour here and there would be nice. I'm not saying that the entire map needs to be coloured, you can keep the overall colour theme greyscale (whereas Core is green, Inferno is orange, etc..). But just a few small coloured lights or something would be good. Try to make it realistic and consistent with the oil-rig theme though.

8) Also it's a bit dark in some places and I can't always see where I'm going. I know this is all lighting stuff which you haven't really started upon just yet, but it's something to keep in mind :)

That's all I can think of for now. Gameplay is hard to tell without playtesting but it looks pretty good so far! Graphically the work you've done looks great and is very high quality, but I feel that the theme is a bit misplaced. It looks a bit more like a futuristic alien space ship than an oil rig which would be more thematically consistent with the real-world vibe of the other official maps. Still looking really nice so far. Good stuff!

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 Post subject: Re: Pump [V1.0]
PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug 2015, 06:04 
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This should be the first version. Download and give it a quick runthrough and lemme know what needs changing.

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 Post subject: Re: Pump [V1]
PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug 2015, 13:18 
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I still dont like it. Too abstract, Quake 3, totally symmetrical, no theme and weird gameplay.


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 Post subject: Re: Pump [V1]
PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug 2015, 20:51 
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Massive improvement over Corrumpo! And it looks a lot better than the last time you posted it as well. As always your pipes are amazeballs. I really like the tiling work you've done as well, especially the side tiles. Lots of people screw that up and stretch the textures too far, but you've got it down perfectly. And of course the central oil pipe looks great. Might I suggest you add a few wave effects to the water? Similar to what Nightfall did in Turbine. That would be a nice touch I think.

Regarding Max's comments about gameplay I think it's too early to tell. We simply have to playtest it. In theory it should be good because it has routes now and is more compact. People aren't going to get lost anymore. Plenty of CQC areas as well. It might be a bit tricky with vehicles but we simply need to test it out. What I'll do is upload it to the community server and we can have a play around :) Regarding symmetry I think it's fine. Yes in the future I'd like to stay away from 4 corner symmetry, but having just a few maps like this, Core, and Residence is ok. Perfectly balanced for competitive play at least. You might want to try make it look a bit less symmetrical visually though, with a few different coloured boxes around the place.

Visually it looks great with the textures and models and decals. Although maybe as Max pointed out the theme is still a little bit "abstract". Or as I called it, "futuristic". Though it's a lot better than before. I think this can be fixed in a few ways. Adding a directional light will break up the symmetry. Also moving the point lights around a bit. Look at what I did with Residence. Even though the tiles are symmetrical in Residence I used the lighting to break it up a bit. Only one of the lamp posts in the garden area emits light for example. I think the perfectly symmetrical lighting makes the map look more abstract/futuristic than it needs to be.

Anyway here are some concrete suggestions:

1) These steps don't line up. intentional? http://prntscr.com/80fi2p
2) Maybe add some wave effects so we know for sure it's water surrounding us.
3) Add a directional light to simulate the moon. I notice you've technically got one but the way you've positioned it means that it's casting no shadows and is basically just adding a futuristic blue ambience to the map. Visually it looks abstract because you wonder "where is this light coming from?" Having a properly positioned moon that casts long shadows will not only break up symmetry but also look more realistic and thematic of an oilrig at night time. Use a setting more similar to what we've got in Barn or Residence so it casts an actual visual shadow. It's just a futuristic blue glow atm.
4) Likewise, try deleting a few of those point lights. Especially the ones in the center and along the horizontal and vertical seams of symmetry. If the tiles are symmetrical that's fine as it balances gameplay. But try and break this up with the lighting and textureing along the seams. For example in the very center maybe only have 1 point light instead of 4. Maybe something like this: http://prntscr.com/80fy3l This is with a moon and a single point light. I'm not saying this exactly and maybe not those colours, I just tossed this in there to illustrate. But thematically it looks a bit more realistic than what you've got which is way more alien space-shipish than oilrigish: http://prntscr.com/80fytq
5) Maybe toss a few more orange coloured boxes around the map as well to spice things up a bit. It will contrast with the overall blue theme of the map and again look more like an industrial oilrig than an alien space ship. Like this part here looks a lot more oilriggish to me than the central blue and rainbow area: http://prntscr.com/80g3bg
6) Along the vertical seam it's good. But along this horizontal seam it's very symmetrical, so by deleting a few lights and textures you can break this up a bit: http://prntscr.com/80g0h5
7) After you put the moon directional light in, you might want to change the full-dark collision property on your tiles to the teal one. This will make them cast shadows based on their height and look more realistic.
8) Also I notice you have the point-lighting only property on the jumps in the center of the map. This won't make sense once you add a proper moon because they're outside and thus should receive moonlight like everything else.
9) It might be a nice touch to add the tile (pink) property to a few of the tiles, just so the footstep noises change a bit as you move around. It's a small touch but it makes things sound less monotonous when you're constantly on foot.
10) Some areas are probably just a wee little bit too detailed, again making the map look more futuristic and less like an oilrig. Mostly in the center. Maybe simplify things a little? Also I predict that some of the firing angles might be a bit annoying in the center due to this complexity. Notice for example how my cursor has gone red here. It's because the grate is lowered down just enough so I can't aim at the ground there. Might be ok once we playtest it but I imagine it'll be annoying. Maybe just remove those grates (or flatten at least) to simply things visually and allow you to aim over what will probably be a very heavy combat zone: http://prntscr.com/80g4yx
12) Maybe experiment with the lighting for a bit more contrast to the blue everywhere. I'd probably remove all the coloured lights except for in the very spawn areas as they are only making things look more futuristic. Just stick to blue moon lighting and 1 or 2 simple colours, maybe a yellow and blue light like seen in many other maps. It's a proven colour scheme with good contrast. Purple lights don't make me think of an oilrig at all to be honest.
13) I noticed that you've used the Sci logo in all 4 spawn zones. No big deal but for consistency it'd be nice if it was only in the sci spawn and the rebels used their logo instead.
14) No comment on vehicles yet, we'll just have to playtest it and see. At least you can zoom around the outsides though so should hopefully be alright.

It's looking a hell of a lot better and apart from the futuristic theme in the central area I think it's great. I think the size is about perfect for consistency with the other official maps and once you get this oil rig theme consistent across the entire map it'll be a really great addition to the official maps. Loads quickly too despite 700+ models, which as always look fantastic.

So yah, I'll upload this to the community servers now and hopefully we can have a game on it :)

Keep up the good work!

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 Post subject: Re: Pump [V1]
PostPosted: Tue 11 Aug 2015, 02:05 
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New update.
Lighting update to prevent "futuristic" look, all modes take place during sunset, except for outbreak which takes place at night.
Added flickering lights, will remove if causes loading issues, but currently I'm sitting at 12s loading time with other things on my computer going on.
Adjusted/removed existing lights.
Added tiling properties
Adjusted some tiles, such as in spawn, or to adjust color scheme..
Attachment:
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thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Pump [V1]
PostPosted: Tue 11 Aug 2015, 03:41 
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This looks really good! My favourite version yet. I really dig the daylight theme as well. I think it makes the map look a lot more industrial and far less furturistic, and really seems like a different map from Corrumpo now. Plus considering that most other official maps are night time this is good for a change. I think thematically it looks different enough from Turbine. It looks really good. Did you change the tiling much? It just looks way better this time around for some reason.

As for feedback gameplay wise things seemed fine last time we played it. We can always tweak things for following versions. Of course if someone else has ideas now is a good time to post them.

Graphically all I can think of is:
1) In some areas it's just a bit too bright.. as in too much specular lighting which over exposes the ground and just creates a pure white, bright blob. This isn't too bad, but could maybe be toned down a bit by darkening the tile colour and/or changing the tile property (brown has low specularity, white medium, pink high, metal/water extremely high). Maybe in these problem areas ensure the tile property is set to white or maybe even dirt if the sound isn't too weird.

2) Some animated waves like in Turbine would be a nice touch. I didn't see any of these. These could be around the outside, but even in the central area.

3) Maybe remove the 4 coloured lights in the central area? I get that they indicate what side the spawn is but everyone will know this, and I think thematically it would be better without them.


I can't really think of anything else. It looks great! Will definitely make it official for next version. Congrats!! How about you just do whatever final changes you want to it and send it over, and then I can have a quick once over to fix a few minor things I saw (for example the fountain noise in the center has a dampening value which is too low, and it sounds strange when you walk behind the walls. Very minor stuff).

Would be nice if others input their feedback, but I'm happy with it. Looks amazing as always, and I think is a huge improvement over Corrumpo in terms of gameplay and theme.

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 Post subject: Re: Pump [V1]
PostPosted: Tue 11 Aug 2015, 05:34 
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Didn't do much actual tiling change except for in the spawns. I did retexture some tiles to be that more beige-ish texture, the one that was used as the ground in Villa. I figured that the lighting was leaning towards orange-yellow, so it wouldn't stand out so much against the grey. However it didn't look quite as rough, so I had to use a bit more decals to make it look dirtier.
Attachment:
Pump.sub [352.17 KiB]
Downloaded 108 times

Ended up changing some of the values for the particles being used for the fountains (I found that if I used shared sound for the center and the top/bot fountains, it would sound weird)
Fixed a weird shadow caused by a model.
Adjusted death tiles, there were two areas where people would instantly die before they walked off, due to death/hurt tiles affecting sloped surfaces
Added healing tiles to gangster spawns, so if they do manage to head back they'll heal up. Probably wont be used that much in actual PVP, because it's out in the open and out of the way, but I'm curious to see what comes of it.

Feel free to look over and change whatever needs changing, Ben.

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 Post subject: Re: Pump [V1]
PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug 2015, 22:19 
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Hey man, looks great! I shall make this bad boy official for next version. 10 official maps woo!! Here are a list of changes I made, please take a look and let me know if you want anything undone. I've attached the file:

1) Fixed a few misaligned textures.
2) Tweaked frequency of the waves for performance reasons.
3) Added force display to all models/decals associated with lights.
4) Gave models/decals to a few lights which had none.
5) Recoloured a few boxes (I like it so boxes that you can jump over are bright orange, while ones you cannot are dark brown).
6) added a few more decals for grittness around the outsides.
7) Tweaked a few of the outbreak zones for more diversity and made sure no zombie spawns were too close to bombs.

Basically just a few little graphical/performance touchups. Didn't do much because it already looked great! Very curious to see how this plays next version in terms of gameplay. It's a brand new map!

Awesome work man. Thanks :D


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